i was talking to someone a few years ago and he said in his congregation they have a rail of white shirts prepared in the cloakroom for if a speaker doesn't have a white shirt on.
it was a rule in their hall that all brothers in the platform must wear white shirts when going talks and if the speaker won't comply when asked to change into the shirt they provide an elder in the congregation will do the talk instead.
i have never known any other halls do it so it must be a rule the elders have made up without gb input.
At my hall the brothers couldn't have "privileges" if they didn't have a suit jacket on. So in boiling hot temperatures where the hall was not ventilated (mostly because the elderly still thought it was "cold" lol), you just had to put up with almost fainting.
Mind you, it came in handy because I hated microphone duties, so often "forgot" to bring my jacket :)
"Sorry sir, I left my PE kit at home"
going to be completely honest here, no feelings spared for me.
when i was a jw, one of my biggest motivations for "reaching out" was to become a "somebody".
i loved the idea of being a leader, teaching/training others.
Xanthippe:
"Being famous or loved by this crazy world is all sham. Be real."
I agree with that generally, however most people don't think of just fame in extreme cases - they translate it to their current situation. It is more realistic/viable. For example, the desire to be respected by friends/family. When it comes to the organisation the net is wider, it extends to the congregation. Since there's not much else to do in the org other than what they "program" into the adherents, the next best thing to feel accomplished is congregational responsibilities. With that comes the ego puffing, more-so for young men.
Using myself as an example - I was taking field service groups, reading at the hall, saying public prayers etc by my 17th birthday. My brother was a MS by that age, and at Bethel by 20. At that age you are highly impressionable. To me it felt like I had the weight of the world on my shoulders, I had to the the "hero" lol. My brother STILL is delusional (serving where the need is great, being the only elder in one congregation).
going to be completely honest here, no feelings spared for me.
when i was a jw, one of my biggest motivations for "reaching out" was to become a "somebody".
i loved the idea of being a leader, teaching/training others.
@ scratchme1010
Glad you enjoyed some of the points! Now the big question, would you like to become one of my followers? Just kidding...
Yes I think it plays on ones ego whether you are humble/shy or very confident. For those without much self worth it gives them a needed boost to feel normal (e.g. like you mentioned about being "born again"). Although I wouldn't begrudge them this, except for when they elevate themselves above the rest of mankind.
"I was lost but Jesus saved ME....me me me me me me. It's not my fault he found me to be a special little snowflake."
going to be completely honest here, no feelings spared for me.
when i was a jw, one of my biggest motivations for "reaching out" was to become a "somebody".
i loved the idea of being a leader, teaching/training others.
Phizzy:
I also found the ego massaged somewhat by giving Public Talks, which were enjoyed by many I was told, and I was a "requested" speaker for many other Congregations, even though I was simply a mere M.S
Exactly! Each time you excelled at something, it puffs you up even more, especially when you compared yourself to ones who weren't as "able". As mentioned, it's easy to start getting some Messiah complex, seeing yourself as a saviour to others. Maybe this is perfectly normal and natural human behaviour, and thus why greater things have been accomplished in the past. However, it's one of religion's greatest hindrances - stubborn refusal to take on board outside advise.
going to be completely honest here, no feelings spared for me.
when i was a jw, one of my biggest motivations for "reaching out" was to become a "somebody".
i loved the idea of being a leader, teaching/training others.
Sorry it took so long...
Ruby 456:
"Yet achieving and having status is a significant aspect of wellbeing"
True, but that doesn't negate the fact that many are just delusional in their "power". One of the luring aspects of these responsibilities (no matter how beneficial to ones psyche) is the illusion that somehow you're important/special/necessary; "This congregation NEEDS me" kind of thinking.
In a secular environment this definitely happens, but not to the extent I saw in the JW religion.
i understand that cults and religious groups will always exist.
but why do jehovah’s witnesses continue as a religion that people will join?.
Two major ones:
1) As has been mentioned, something tangible (homely) for the future - life on a paradise earth (without the extremes of hell/heaven). Many want to see their dead loved ones again, and they only can imagine this in the life they currently live (earth).
2) Probably one of the biggest ones - people coming to YOUR door to show an interest in YOU (feel loved and that the message is vital). Cannot beat that. This one to one contact makes people feel special (no longer lonely), important, and readier to commit to greater cause (the thrill of being part of something grand/urgent). I used to push my beliefs onto the online JW community quite a bit when I first left, and the biggest contention that many of them raised was this: "where are you on a Saturday morning? Not at my door....therefore why should I listen to you?". All these traits distract a person from their issues, bringing comfort/relief.
going to be completely honest here, no feelings spared for me.
when i was a jw, one of my biggest motivations for "reaching out" was to become a "somebody".
i loved the idea of being a leader, teaching/training others.
Will try to address most points from this thread...
Wasanelder Once wrote:
"I liked to lead also. I liked it because I was good at it and it brought me pleasure to serve others, to give to them. There is something selfish in all we do. I don't feel guilty for being competent. You examined yourself and found something else, I get that. I, on the other hand, accomplished a lot."
I guess you really have to draw the line between competence in something truly beneficial...and delusional (being a leader for the sake of being a leader).
Someone could be excellent at giving talks, winning arguments, charm etc but to what end? To further perpetuate a damaging high control group? If wisdom at large and humility is taken out of the equation then a so called "good leader" may just be good for getting followers and nothing much else. Then what happens when this competent person is challenged and called out for the lack of tangible "fruits"? The disguised ego takes over and it becomes more about them than the purpose to give to the group. They start to see the people they "serve" as their own possessions, and God forbid anyone tries to steal them away (denounce the leader's direction) since the leader's sense of self worth is built upon this ongoing adoration/respect. Hence the reason why many exJWs who were in positions of influence in the org struggle to adapt to "normal conditions" outside it - they still crave the ego stroking of being a somebody (often trying to gratify it in other ways).
That's not to say that the motives are always bad. All I know is that I have swayed between various emotions, and still do - from desiring to help people (a creative and zealous altruism), to other humbling feelings of realising the gaping holes in my own life which brings me crashing back to earth again :)
going to be completely honest here, no feelings spared for me.
when i was a jw, one of my biggest motivations for "reaching out" was to become a "somebody".
i loved the idea of being a leader, teaching/training others.
Guess what I'm trying to say is that it's become abundantly clear that humans are selfish by nature (instinctively) and although we strive to be what we're interested in, even if it's helping others there's still that self serving side.
To be a great leader involves putting yourself at the back and others before you. However, this takes a heck of a lot of experience. So none of this electing 20 or 30 somethings. You need to be "at the bottom" (gone through fire) before you can be of decent service. Funnily enough, because of this I think that disfellowshipped / "apostates" would make the better leader/teacher! My elders were extremely sheltered.
IMO, organised religion in general is not conducive to progress when it comes to leadership. It (especially WT) elevates this "I'm in charge" fallacy which does more to serve the system than the adherents. Sadly it also fosters a ridiculously arrogant hierarchy whereby people are put into boxes - "I do the thinking, you are the subservient one", and people lap it up because it's never seen in any other way. They also thrive on the comfort of following someone who looks confident.
I simply cannot be part of that rubbish; the ultimate goal should be of equality, and no excuses for spiritual abuse. I noticed the silly sex favouritism too, and true balance cannot be had with just one sex "spiritually ruling".
Of course, leaders are born and as has been mentioned it's not evil. However I do think that unless you are made fully aware of the human desire to be prominent, and until you have been almost at rock bottom, you won't serve any community very well (or at least not get to your potential).
going to be completely honest here, no feelings spared for me.
when i was a jw, one of my biggest motivations for "reaching out" was to become a "somebody".
i loved the idea of being a leader, teaching/training others.
Going to be completely honest here, no feelings spared for me. When I was a JW, one of my biggest motivations for "reaching out" was to become a "somebody". I loved the idea of being a leader, teaching/training others. Unless I was somehow explaining something, or showing someone what to do, I didn't feel fulfilled.
Knowing these feelings in part, and amongst other reasons, I decided the best thing to do would be to wait until my motivations for "serving in the congregation" were more pure and less egotistical. Considering I'm not even a very proud person (actually suffered from inferiority complex deep down), this says a lot about many who do end up in positions of power. It makes me wonder how much is self-service?
I now know that these motivations were stimulated by other things that were missing/wrong in my life, and being a "leader" was just a cover-up.
Even after I left, I still had to cope with this delusional part of me that wanted to "show other people what to do" spiritually speaking. It's egotism in disguise! Some still don't even know they're doing it...
i'm really biting my tongue at the moment with a certain witness.
he said he hates how the churches have lied to people, misled them, controlled them, got money out of them.
gouge can he noht see the wts has done that, i really wanted to say something so badly.
like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders
That's because it has...then a couple of years later once you've settle down again you're like "crap, who exactly am I?"
lol
...and the journey of self discovery begins
